Monday, March 1, 2010

The Mighty Dreadnoughts

With my pilot training for T3 (Tengu and Proteus) to Level 5 completed, I began to consider what is next for Star Defender, my Caldari main toon. I have longer-term visions (too early to call them "plans") for Class 6 (waves at Quiv) and NullSec.

As a Caldari, he is max-skilled at all-things related to missile and shields, and I have all sentry and drone skills to max. I also have Caldari BS to max as well as a host of supporting skills relating to optimizing CPU and Power for fittings. At just over 25M skill points, I have a lot of ground covered.

That left a major fork in the proverbial road for either going "small" (Frigate/HAC PvP training) or for going big (Dread). I am edging towards going big. I have never been a big fan of carriers, but I REALLY like the looks of the Amarr Revelation.

Most of my reading to date has seen the Revelation highly recommended for a number of reasons, but to me I think it ultimately comes down to what ship I like the most, minus what ships simply do not make sense. With my max skilled drone and sentry skills, however, and with a similarly max-skilled Gallente toon (LightTraveler), the Moros is also appealing.

Although Caldari-trained, I think I am talking myself out of the Phoenix - so many comments and writings (even from current Phoenix pilots) that said if they could do it all over again they would never choose the Phoenix, although it's tank rocks.

Looking for some feedback here. I have plenty of time to make a decision, with the non-racial (e.g. common skills) to get out of the way first.

Love this video by the way:

Fly Safe!


  1. /waves at SD :-)

    When you look at the dreads, it's all down to when are you gonna fly them. 0.0 POS bashing? well yeah you could do that...

    For us wspace colonists however, dreads = more ISK from sleeper sites.

    IMHO the only dread that makes sense to actually field it and keep it on the field after the Guardian Spawn arrives is the Moros because of it's added damage from drones. I don't expect to be able to hit any sleepers with the XL guns anyways but we will try with both the Revelation and the Moros in the upcoming months and we'll see.

    In any case, being a Caldari mostly pilot myself, I have to agree that the Phoenix sux, mostly imho because it looks like a giant turd.

    Carriers are vastly more useful, but then again I'd prefer not to keep my eyes on the watch-list all the time - after being a main healer in wow for years I don't wanna do that again :-p

    Personally I'd go for small T2 Frigs / HACs / Recons to compliment a small roaming gang in PVP instead of focusing on any capitals. It's much more fun at the end of the day - and having lots of options to get on various type of ships when you need to defend your base is quite valuable.

  2. Thanks Quiv - and yes, I was considering Dread for C6 and for future 0.0 TCU bashing.

    Interested to hear your findings on Dread turrets, as I may have made a false assumption on actually using those Revelation monster beams in W-Space. If not, then yes all about added drone DPS.

    If the test proves that Dread guns are not applicable in C6-space, then what are you bringing beyond BS's? Carriers for 'repping and fighter DPS?

  3. I've been reading your blog for a long time, but this is my first comment!

    First off, great blog, it always puts a smile on my face when I see a new post :)

    Second, I'll agree on QV's suggestion to go small, odds are good that you'll use command ships and recons a lot more than capital ships, not to mention that the fun factor of using caps is usually pretty low :(

    However, if you're serious about using capital ships in high class WH systems, then carrier with fighters will outshine dreads by far in almost every way.

    Fighters will absolutely tear up sleeper BS' and most cruiser-sized escorts but what really makes this shine is the remote repping capability of carriers will allow you to have fighters tank a fair bit or at least allow them to survive long enough to make it back to your drone bay in a sticky situation. I'd recommend using armor repping mostly as you'll most likely not have a fighter locked before it's shields are gone in most cases.

    And finally, Amarr victor!

  4. Thanks Anon, appreciate the input - like I said, I am "edging" towards big, shiny behemoths, but not yet committed. Consistent feedback via comments and eve convo is to go PvP...

  5. yeah Carriers are logistic monsters - much needed in a Class 6. We wanna move away of the BSs however, just to spice up our game a bit. As time goes by we will be trying out T3 ships as well as other cool stuff..

    rat.. rattl... Rattlesnake anyone? :-)

    In any case, I know lots of folks who go with Guardians instead of BSs for RR support.

    Stay tuned for tomorrow's Planet Risk Show - we'll be going into more detail :-)

  6. some rational questions:

    1) Jumpdrive calibration to 5 is the skill to have it.

    2) the Moros is just too weak compared to the Rev. Crystals mean you can carry more fuel and Strontium, space is critical.

    3) Mass of a Rev is 1,237,500,000 even more if you plate it. You sure you want to risk never being able to get it out again?

  7. Carrier all the way dude, then super carrier, it just makes sense its more versatile in the long rung, carriers you can use in WH's for logistics and massive drones dps... but on the same time, you are within reach of supercarriers and fighter-bombers that can do lots of good pos damage

  8. A quick comment to Manasi's points:

    - First off yeah I agree with all 3, however if you look for Dreads into wspace alone:

    1) You will never use the jump drive of the cap ship - assuming you will be building it inside your hole

    2) I assume that XL guns will have trouble hitting Sleeper BSs. On that assumption, the Moros will be more usefull since it will provide a nice bonus to Drone Damage (Double the Domi Bonus). Cargo Capacity is again irrelevant for wspace use.

    3) Large wormholes support max jumpable mass of 1.350.000.000 Kg. Unfortunately not enough for a SuperCarrier, but enough for a Dread. Even if you plate it, you can just turn the plates offline before jumping.

  9. Moros is good all around fighting dread with very long reach if you fit it right. I bet if had BS sleepers at 100KM you could hit them at a decent rate. With the drones you can take care of the small sleepers that fly to close. With a Moros's large drone bay you will have enough room to have replenish the fallen drones with out the worry of losing DPS to soon. Plus if you use a combination of Berserker SW-900 drones and Berserker TP-900 drones on your target ships you shouldn't have to much of a problem nailing the sleeper BS.

    If you go with the Rev you pretty much setting up for a mid range cap with a very decent tank. You would also have the chance to set up a stronger tank then the Moros but will not be able to put up the full potential DPS of the Moros.

    If you want to do DPS(best tracking) or range(Worst tracking) go for Moros. If you want Mid range with a tank then go Reve.

    One nice advantage of having a dread in your system is if you get an intruder setting up a POS you can quickly bash it down using a dread then if you were to use sub caps. I thought I would point that out that it does well for home defense.

    As for caps in WH I would stick closer to using carriers since they are a little more versatile and depending on type tank more then a dread.

  10. First off why in the world would you plate a capital ship :S

    Second theres not much sense in owning a dread unless your in a corp that uses them for pos bashing or capital shotting.

    Carriers on the other hand (I own an archon) a excellent for logistics and moving ships around, though they can not carry too much other than ships.

    They are also better in wormholes from my understanding. If your going to be using a capital ship in a site the carrier is the way to go. Carrier with 10 drones does the same damage as a moros with 5 of the same type, and it can improve the remote repair capabilities of the gang significantly. From what I've heard Triage also is quite valuable in combat sites, but I haven't tried it myself.

  11. Great comments and input from all.

    Sounds to me like I need to resolve whether my future lies in returning to W-Space in a C5/C6 or to NullSec, as the seemingly obvious choice for the former is a Carrier, but the latter seems more suited to NullSec.

    As the pull from W-space seems greater, it seems I will have to reconsider my perspective on Carriers.

    Damn - still think that Rev is a cool looking ship, especially with a full salvo lighting up the heavens...

    Fly Safe

  12. I recommend going with what ever you want. I've all like the idea of carriers myself and use it often. I have used it at times when I should of had a dread, but I have to say I'm still satisfied it being my first capital ship to fly. I say go for the ship you like even if it sucks. At least you can say, "I got the ship I wanted," instead of, "I wish I tried to get that ship."

  13. If you do start training for dreads, would you be building your own or purchasing?

  14. Purchase. And it looks like I will shoot for a carrier first.

  15. Interesting. Any idea whether C5s/C6s are soloable in a carrier? I have heard that using capitals triggers extra spawns in wh space.

  16. I have not heard of anyone attempting to solo in a carrier, but yes, using capitals does trigger additional spawns.

  17. As a reformed phoenix pilot, I can testify that they are terrible.

    In terms of capitals, you want to choose between amarr and gallente. Amarr have the best carrier, the best dread for cap fights/pos bashing and the supercarrier with the most HP; gallente have drone damage on the dread and the nyx (25% damage bonus, best looking ship in the game), but their dread is hideously, indescribably ugly. Carrier, too.

  18. As a Phoenix pilot in a WH.....looking at the extra income we get out of sleeper sites I have to say that the tank on the Phoenix is great, we spawn the extra BS right off the bat, the carrier (Agree with Gallentee there) provides fighter support and the rest of our crew is in T3.

    Tie that in with the fact that using the Pheonix I'm not using guns, I'm using citidel cruise launchers which tear the BS's up and its a good show.

    I think ultimately the choice is what you want to do when your talking WH space...a lot fo these other considerations come down to PVP situations and preferences but WH space is a different animal for sure giving you some extra room to follow what you want to do.

  19. Well I know this thread is somewhat dead, but you should fly what you want. C5/6 both have cap esc. waves, and to *fully* utilize that you need 2 of each, since each type (carrier and dread) can trigger up to 2 of them from unique ships warping in.

  20. Late thread but FYI running sleeper sites in a c5 or a c6, with 2 dreads (moros/rev) an archon, a second carrier for escalation and 1 or 2 Lokis is by far the easiest way to make isk. And yes the dreads do his the sleepers, the lokis web & TP them. You can clear one site in around 12-14 mins so around 4 bil per hour and it can be dual boxed by 2-3 ppl.